Dick Grayson, Infinite Crisis, and a whole lot of the DCU stuffed into one IM.

[lady_sarai]

Okay, so I go from not posting in several days to posting four times in one afternoon, but all these IM posts do come from TWO conversations--Wednesday and Thursday nights. So, um... not sure how, but that makes it better? Also, my mother is sick and I am taking care of her and thus spending my Saturday just sitting here. ;)

So, lately, I gave in to the voice in my head that was screaming DICK GRAYSON at me, and I revisited some of my comics. Which lead me to giving in to curiousity and finally reading Infinite Crisis.

Oh, DC. I love and hate you, all at once.

The hate? Well. >_< Superboy punched reality, didn't he? Which is entirely cracktastic and wonderful in that it's SO cracktastic, but it's also... horrid. ::shrug:: Also, not a fan of mindless death, but it's comics, right? Meh.

The love? Well.

I've mentioned that I've been in love with Dick Grayson since I was seven, right? ;) And the whole screwed up father-son relationship between him and Bruce is one of my favorite things, EVER, and Infinite Crisis? Was chockful of it.

I was planning on posting about this eventually, but zoe_chan and I got chatting and I wound up explaining it all via IM, so I'm gonna just copy/paste, rather than retype. ;)

But first! I was chatting and this exchange occurred:

Me: Well, Dick kind of spiraled into this wacky emo drama king full of WOE and DOOOOM.
zoe_chan: I don't really see Robin as emo.
Me: No, but Nightwing is.

And prompted me to give a quick and extensive off-the-top-of-my-head history of Dick Grayson, former Boy Wonder. ;)

Note: This was all utterly off the top of my head, so forgive any inconsistencies. Also, while I have read a fair amount of Nightwing, I also read a lot of Wiki. ;) Also, my grasp of DC timelines--especially after both Crises--is handwavy at times.

Another note: I really did gloss over a LOT of details and if you want more, check out Wikipedia, at LEAST. ;) I actually know more than this lets on, if you can believe that. I am completely aware that much more went on than I managed to convey. I could probably talk for several hours about Dick, AND the people around him. Contrary to what I might let on, I know a LOT more about the DCU than I do about the X-Men. And, sacriledge that it is, my love for Dick may be EVER SO SLIGHTLY more than my love for Scott, which, ACK!! So WRONG!


Lady_Sarai: But he's got reasons... Batman fired him and adopted Jason Todd and made Jason the new Robin--without asking Dick first. THEN Jason was beat to death by the Joker.
zoe_chan: poor Dick...
Lady_Sarai: And then? What else? Oh, yes, Barbara was paralyzed by the Joker...
zoe_chan: I knew that
zoe_chan: Oracle!
Lady_Sarai: Batman made him give up Robin competely and quit the Teen Titans (this being before Jason but not by much)
zoe_chan: bwah??
Lady_Sarai: oh, yeah.
Lady_Sarai: after he fired Robin--because the Joker shot him in the shoulder and Batman is an ASS.
Lady_Sarai: Robin went off to be the leader of the Teen Titans regardless of how Bruce felt about it
Lady_Sarai: and then Bruce showed up and gave some speech about how he can't be Robin AT ALL
zoe_chan: O_O
Lady_Sarai: and... there is general fuckery.
zoe_chan: is it okay if I hate Bruce right now?
Lady_Sarai: It's really, really, really BAD and there is so much BAD between them.
Lady_Sarai: Yes.
Lady_Sarai: Cause he's an ass.
Lady_Sarai: I hate the writers, honestly.
Lady_Sarai: but!
Lady_Sarai: right, so he becomes Nightwing.
Lady_Sarai: and they form the Titans, not to be confused with the TEEN Titans.
Lady_Sarai: And here (I *think*) he meets Kory, who is Starfire, who he falls in love with and on their wedding day Raven goes nuts (I think she's possessed?) and attacks everyone and the wedding doesn't so much happen and then Kory has to go back to her home planet (as she's an alien) and get married or something terrible will happen and she does and Dick is Not Happy.
zoe_chan: ::twitches a little::
zoe_chan: Starfire and Raven of the Teen Titans TV show fame, I wonder?
Lady_Sarai: Yes!
Lady_Sarai: PRECISELY.
zoe_chan: 'cause I totally adore Raven in general
Lady_Sarai: That Robin is Dick.
zoe_chan: I know
Lady_Sarai: (It's annoying in that Speedy is not in that show.)
Lady_Sarai: ::shifty eyes:: Except in an episode or two.
zoe_chan: He gets a cameo
Lady_Sarai: yeah.
Lady_Sarai: but he was a main member-- Vic and Gar come later, in the Titans--not the Teen Titans. (I THINK)
Lady_Sarai: ::is a GEEK::
zoe_chan: ::hugs::
Lady_Sarai: it was Donna(Wonder Girl--who I really, really like and is something of a sister figure to Dick), Dick, Garth (Aqualad--later called Tempest), Kid Flash (Wally West) and Speedy (Roy). I also don't like that Donna isn't on the show, either, but.
Lady_Sarai: ahem. Titans were a lot bigger.
Lady_Sarai: um. The timeline is handwavy, have no idea on the Jason status here. but Jason dies at some point.
Lady_Sarai: um. yeah. then what? oh, well, Donna got married and Dick gave her away. That is cute.
zoe_chan: aww...
Lady_Sarai: (I have a fondness for Donna who I like much better than Wonder Woman who I don't much care for)
Lady_Sarai: okay, seriously trying to remember more about why Dick is So Screwed Up. most of it is Batman's fault.
Lady_Sarai: OH!
zoe_chan: it is.
Lady_Sarai: Okay, so Tim is the third Robin and he stalked Dick, pretty much--he was at the circus the day Dick's parents died and he figured out Dick was Robin because he saw Robin do a quadruple somersault, and was the right age, or some handwavy shit. Tim is cool. Tim tries to convince Dick that Batman needs a Robin and he should come back (this after Jason is dead and Batman's a little apeshit crazy violent, even for him). But Dick says No Way and poor Tim gets to be Robin, which of course means that he will wind up orphaned even if it takes years to happen.
Lady_Sarai: but. Then Bain came and broke Batman's back and Batman was paralyzed and DID NOT TELL DICK. (although I'm unsure if that's canon or fanon...)
Lady_Sarai: Because he is King of Screwing Things Up With Your Son.
zoe_chan: ::blinks::
zoe_chan: I hate Batman sometimes
Lady_Sarai: yeah, and he hired someone ELSE to be Batman instead of Dick.
Lady_Sarai: this someone else turned out to be a psychopathic murdering freak
zoe_chan: oi
Lady_Sarai: And Dick stopped him and Bruce confessed that he didn't want to burden Dick with the batmantle or somesuch shit. It's actually something good, but. you know.
zoe_chan: ::rolls eyes::
Lady_Sarai: so Dick fills in until Bruce is better.
Lady_Sarai: yeah.
Lady_Sarai: He does adopt Dick at some point.
Lady_Sarai: but you know, after he's an ADULT.
Lady_Sarai: so Dick moves to Bludhaven and becomes a police officer and is Nightwing. and there is Blockbuster. I am so sure there is more bad shit that happens... oh, yes, the fourth Robin is a girl and she gets killed.
Lady_Sarai: um. I'm not sure but I know other shit went down with Dick. I know that Donna died and it damn near killed him and he disbanded the Titans and not long after, he and Roy (now known as Arsenal) form the Outsiders--under the condition that this time there will be No Emotional Attachments (which makes no sense, as he's working with ROY). He's turned into a Batman Jr, even though now he has decided he Never Wants To Be Batman.
Lady_Sarai: (it's the general concensus that Tim would make a better Batman in the future anyway)
Lady_Sarai: Remember how I told you that this big villain (Blockbuster) found out who Nightwing was and targeted Dick by burning down Haly's Circus and bombing his apartment building and Dick let Tarantula (a female "hero") shoot Blockbuster, even though he thinks (after) that he should have done anything he could have to stop her from killing him? And then she RAPED him? >_< (Well, the "rape" part is sort of debated, but, yeah. SQUICKS ME LIKE WHOA, THE WHOLE THING) This would be where he spirals into this wacky emo drama king full of WOE and DOOOOM.
zoe_chan: rightly so
Lady_Sarai: It's been a Very Bad Year for Dick, as I'm not sure WHEN but at some point Donna died, and then the whole Blockbuster thing and then he left the Outsiders, and he pretty much cut off all contact with everyone after this whole mess with Blockbuster and Tarantula.
Lady_Sarai: So he went to NY and went undercover with the mob.
Lady_Sarai: Like you do.
Lady_Sarai: ::eye roll::
zoe_chan: naturally
Lady_Sarai: but it falls apart, of course. And he winds up being tracked down by Slade--Deathstroke. And Deathstroke wants him to train his daughter, Rose, to be an assassin--since he's gone over to the Dark Side now, which is what Dick tries to tell him.
Lady_Sarai: Dick calls himself Renegade and has a new creepy costume and trains Rose.
zoe_chan: O_O
Lady_Sarai: not to kill, but to do all the other stuff the Bat trained him so well in
Lady_Sarai: recon and stealth and figuring out motives and all that jazz.
zoe_chan: hehe
Lady_Sarai: he's really good at not killing anyone and she's really fun and snarky.
Lady_Sarai: (this is the trade book I have)
Lady_Sarai: and then he has her search for some wacky serum that can create superpowered bad guys but it's a search protocol only Oracle, Batman, Dick and Tim know about. So of COURSE Oracle knows the minute he uses it.
zoe_chan: d'oh
Lady_Sarai: And sents ROY to go see what Dick is up to. (Also, at some point during The Year of Hell, Dick and Babs hooked up and then Broke Up because they're both so screwed up it messes with their OTP factor.)
Lady_Sarai: So, yeah. Here is the scene wherein Roy encounters "Renegade," and oh, DICK.
Lady_Sarai: and when you know that they were once best friends? it's like... OW.
Lady_Sarai: BTW, is it possible to have two OTPs in one fandom with one character? ::headdesk:: oi. DC comics is dangerous and evil for me.
zoe_chan: what are your new two OTPs?
Lady_Sarai: um, well, one is an old one.
Lady_Sarai: Dick Grayson/Barbara Gordon.
Lady_Sarai: Because hello. Robin and Batgirl, duh. Also, they got engaged during "Infinite Crisis" and a year later are not, and WTF?
Lady_Sarai: but, um, then I discovered Roy Harper, aka Arsenal, once called Speedy. And this should NOT be a pairing for me, as a) it's slash and generally? Dick strikes me as very, very straight. (Hell, his list of Serious Relationships includes an Alien Princess.) and b) they have been friends since they were 13 and they are Best Friends in the way of Mark and Roger, but OMG. I have read some fics and ZOMG. it's so damn cute and addictive.
Lady_Sarai: I've developed a HUGE love for Roy in the last few days.
Lady_Sarai: ::sighs:: Also, on his daughter, Lian. Seriously. LIAN! (4 links to demonstrate why I have insane love for Lian and Roy, here.)
Lady_Sarai: (also, for a short while, Rose was Lian's nanny and I'm not sure on what planet that makes sense, but Slade has a seriously screwed up history himself that includes two dead sons--one of whom he killed himself--and then Rose, whose foster parents he had killed.)
zoe_chan: ...
Lady_Sarai: but then he put kryptonite in her eye socket and sent her after Superman and Dick stopped her and told her about kryptonite poisoning and now she hates her father and is a Good Girl, even now a Teen Titan. Apparently. Which I think happened AFTER Deathstroke dropped Chemo on Bludhaven and destroyed the city in an explosion like a nuclear holocaust.
zoe_chan: ::blinks::
Lady_Sarai: which gave Dick radiation poisoning, as he went racing back to save people and had to be saved himself by Bruce. and is why I love Infinite Crisis because OMG Bruce actually loves his son.
Lady_Sarai: yes.
Lady_Sarai: CRACKTASTIC I say.
zoe_chan: hehe
Lady_Sarai: although the timing may be even MORE cracktastic because in the Infinite Crisis books, Bruce goes to Dick when he first arrives at Bludhaven and is SHOCKED AND HORRIFIED by the destruction and stops him from going into the city. I need to find it and quote this all at you because you wouldn't believe it.
zoe_chan: hehe
Lady_Sarai: but! it makes no sense, I can NOT figure when Dick went into the city and got radiation poisoning. >_<
Lady_Sarai: timeline wise.
zoe_chan: because DC is made of crazy?
Lady_Sarai: it's in Nightwing, and in the book I have, but. argh
Lady_Sarai: it SO IS.
Lady_Sarai: but yeah.
Lady_Sarai: it's like DC can't make up its mind between Bruce the Horrible Emotionally Constipated Father Figure and Bruce the Man Who Loves His Kids.
zoe_chan: hehe!
Lady_Sarai: (He adopted Tim, too, btw. and Jason is back from the dead, or he never died at all, it's handwavy.)
zoe_chan: huh...
Lady_Sarai: so, Superman from another dimension wants to change this earth to HIS earth because Crisis of Infinite Earths merged all the earths into this one and it sucks. So Batman is about THIS CLOSE to HELPING HIM, as he's pretty damn disillusioned and pissed off, and this Superman is nice and is calling him a friend. (as a VERY brief cap) Batman asks "what happens to everyone on this earth when yours comes back?" and Superman says "They'll be replaced just as everyone on my earth was. But they'll be better. I never lie, Bruce" And Batman says "What about Dick Grayson? You said this earth corrupts everything. Is the Dick Grayson of my earth a corrupted version of yours?" and Superman hesitates and says "No" and Bruce says "I didn't think so," and whips out some kryptonite.
Lady_Sarai: I flailed a lot.
zoe_chan: ::jawdrop::
Lady_Sarai: I KNOW!!!!
Lady_Sarai: BRUUUUUUCE!
Lady_Sarai: The ONE THING that stopped him from agreeing to REPLACE THE FREAKING PLANET was DICK!
Lady_Sarai: Can I express my love for that?
zoe_chan: wee!
Lady_Sarai: in a way that makes it obvious that Bruce/Dick makes the baby jesus (and me) cry?
zoe_chan: ::mad giggles::
Lady_Sarai: and then Batman Figures Things Out and realizes who is behind all Teh Bad (it's not the new Superman, it's his friends--hello, reality-punching Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor). and then Bludhaven is the new Hiroshima. So Bruce goes there and finds Dick on a roof.
zoe_chan: eep!
Lady_Sarai: D: What are you doing here?
B: ...I wanted to make sure... you're all right...
D: I was in New York when it hit. Got here as soon as I could. I need to get back in there. ::goes to run::
B: Wait.
D: For what?
B: This is one of hundreds of disasters right now. Superman's already in the heart of it, along with a dozen others who can stand the radiation.
D: They're looking for survivors. They aren't finding any.
B: I need to talk to you about the survivors of something else. I need your help, Dick.
zoe_chan: O_O
Lady_Sarai: I KNOW
Lady_Sarai: ::more flail:: So Dick goes back to the Batcave with him where it is revealed that Superboy Prime is a reality-punching moron.
zoe_chan: ::snorts::
Lady_Sarai: D: Why come to me?
B: Because everyone else trusts you. They always have. You've put an importance on keeping up relationships that I neglected. You care.
D: So do you. You just let everyone think different. (then he decides to go to Titans Tower and rally the troops to take on Superboy Prime and will take the Batplane)
B: ...Dick.
D: Yeah?
B: The early years. I've forgotten if... they were good for you, weren't they?
D: The best.
Lady_Sarai: OMG IT'S LIKE THEY ARE COMMUNICATING.
zoe_chan: ee!!!
Lady_Sarai: I KNOW!!!!!!
Lady_Sarai: and he rushes off to the Tower and the only person who answers is the real Superboy and then Wonder Girl (the new one) shows up and they take on the baddies and the real Superboy DIES. but he saves the universe, and Nightwing, in the process.
zoe_chan: oo...
Lady_Sarai: and then there is a BIG BAD SHOWDOWN between every superpowered villain and superhero and every regular hero and villain and it's all in Metropolis and Batman, Robin and Nightwing take on Deathstroke and tie him up and then Alexander Luthor (who is the mastermind and an alternate Lex) fires an antimatter ray at Batman and Nightwing jumps in front of it and Batman? Goes apeshit. and winds up HOLDING A GUN TO THE MAN'S HEAD.
Lady_Sarai: And comes THIS CLOSE TO KILLING HIM.
Lady_Sarai: but Nightwing lives and Batman doesn't kill the guy. Wonder Woman shows up and says "It's not worth it" and he says "I know. Dammit." and throws the gun away.
Lady_Sarai: BUT OMG BATMAN WITH A GUN!!!!
Lady_Sarai: O_O
zoe_chan: wow...
Lady_Sarai: Batman THIS CLOSE to shooting someone!!
Lady_Sarai: He's got the thing ON his forehead.
Lady_Sarai: ::flail::
Lady_Sarai: it's like, "dude, do NOT tell me you almost killed my kid."
zoe_chan: ::mad giggles::
Lady_Sarai: I love Infinite Crisis for the moments where Bruce is a human being and he and Dick actually COMMUNICATE and in the back? One of the writers says, "I liked Batman admitting Grayson was the most important person to him."
Lady_Sarai: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERY WRITER WHO MADE BATMAN AN ASS.
zoe_chan: word.
zoe_chan: ::nods firmly::
Lady_Sarai: dude
Lady_Sarai: and in Nightwing, Dick goes into Bludhaven and right into the radioactive mess, despite Superman telling him "if you go in there, you will die" and he replies "duly noted" ::shakes head:: DICK you idiot. And then he passes out and as he's passing out, he is thinking "I hope he (irrelevant person he's trying to save) thinks someone is coming for him. I've always had that belief and it always should have been enough." and then there's the weak and passing out repetition of this theme--wherein it's clear he means BATMAN was always coming for him--and Batman appears out of the radioactive mists to save him. and he has wacky nightmares including drowning in Batman's cape (it's very weird) and saying "I'm okay. You believe that right, Batman? You still believe in me"
zoe_chan: aww...
Lady_Sarai: and he wakes up saying the "me" part and ALFRED is there and he says "You? Yes, you are still you, Master Dick, as far as I can tell. And I do feel fairly certain I would notice were it otherwise."
Lady_Sarai: Further proof of Alfred winning all.
zoe_chan: hehe
Lady_Sarai: D: Alfred...
A: And I'm still me as well, dear boy. How very observant of you to notice. ::Aside:: He's awake, Master Bruce.
Lady_Sarai: Dick tries to get up, Bruce says he's on his way and Alfred says he should hurry as Dick wants up, and Bruce says "He's in no shape to go anywhere" at which point Alfred uses ONE FINGER to poke at Dick and KNOCK HIM FLAT ON THE BED. "Oh, believe me, sir, we're both very aware of that."
zoe_chan: ::giggles::
Lady_Sarai: heee and Dick confesses that he let Tarantula shoot Blockbuster and he could have stopped her--he says "I killed him" to Alfred, and then Bruce shows up and it's Deathbed Confession Time.
Lady_Sarai: Dick says he's never wanted anyone dead before and Bruce is WICKED pissy and Dick admits to maybe wanting Zucco and the Joker dead and Bruce says "I'm talking about you. You've been trying to kill yourself for the past six months." (which is TRUE) and Dick feebly protests.
Lady_Sarai: Bruce says "you know how I feel about killing and you know why. And you know the difference between shooting a bullet and failing to step in front of one. You lost sight of the value of Roland Desmond's life (Blockbuster). If you need me to forgive you for that, I probably can. But it won't mean anything until you forgive yourself. And you have no right to expect to me to excuse you for losing sight of the value of yours. You made a mistake, Dick. Are you going to let it be your last?"
Lady_Sarai: (somehow this leads to Dick proposing to Barbara with whom he has barely been on speaking terms with lately, but whatever, I still love what Bruce said there.)

(LJ-ify your IMs before pasting!)

So, yeah. I think that covers everything I could possibly want to say about Infinite Crisis, Bruce as an Emotionally Constipated Father Figure, the Batclan, the Titans, and why Dick is, indeed, emo these days.

ETA, 3/2/07: D'oh! I read this over now and I think "wait, no, I was WRONG!" Because now I've done far more research on the Teen Titans and oh. It's not bad as a picture of what I knew, but now I know more. So forgive me. =P